D&D 5th Edition: Good Riddance Magic Item Economy

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8 Responses

  1. Myrthrodorr says:

    if you see the DM of the game someone to fight back against you need a new DM. The DM is not supposed to do everything in their power to make playing difficult. They are supposed to provide fun adventures to a group of players. That’s it. They tell you what you encounter and try and give you a fun time. If your local DM is abusing their powers get a new one.

  2. Nighteternal says:

    It sounds more like you should change your viewpoint as a player and stop thinking it is you vs. DM. The DM, as it is clearly stated in about every edition of DnD is a referee to your game. He needs to have all the secrets you don’t, as a player, know, because it is like Myth said, his job to make a fun adventure for your guys and for some people, part of that fun is obtaining magic items. But 5E focus isn’t about stacking items and feats to make the biggest, baddest power character you can make. It is about roleplay, as DnD should be. Magic items are an added bonus to an already great game setting and you should never feel entitled to have certain or any magic items for that matter. And any DM worth his salt will run an adventure you are capable of handling based on the skill of the players, the level of the characters, and the amount (or lack of) magic items that help the characters along the way. So you shouldn’t worry so much. Just relax and enjoy and if your DM is making it this “me vs. them” scenario, then you definitely need to find a better DM,

  3. I know it’s been a while, but I think the previous commenters didn’t read your article very well. It feels like they read your first comments about the role of the player & DM, got mad like me, and then stopped reading. They never got to the point of your article that shows you don’t actually view it as Player vs DM. That is always one of the dangers of starting off an article as though you hold an opinion that you don’t actually believe. It’s cool when readers hit the twist, but it can quickly alienate many readers.

    • jmgariepy says:

      Those two comments are an odd holdover. Originally, this article stopped at the end of the first paragraph with a redirect to keep reading at the Power to the Meeple website. In the comment section on that website, a very lively conversation was happening. But then the website crashed, and I was forced to resurrect the original version of the article on my site.

      So, yeah, those two posts are from people who didn’t hit the link, and only read the very beginning. Most people did read all the way through… we got a total of maybe 15 comments on this article at Power the Meeple.

      It proved interesting. And I really appreciated the commentors that did’t agree with me on this issue chiming in. Unfortunately, when writing an article like this, I can’t bring up legitimate complaints with my own opinion… I mean, I could, but it’s confusing to the reader and makes (I think) a less entertaining read. The dissenting opinions in the comment section do a good job rounding out the article. It’s a shame we couldn’t keep them.

  4. AerialShenanigans says:

    As a DM, I find the lack of magic item economy (and by extension, lack of appropriate short term goals my players would set for themselves) to be a hinderance in a longer running campaign I’ve begun. We’ve had ~34 sessions at this point where players are around level 8 and their level acquisition is slowing down. In previous games where I was either a DM or a player, players would be making short term goals on what item they were going to attempt to find in town, roleplay on haggling or offering up other items to convince the merchant in approving the sale. Sometimes attempt to steal the item with great success (or hilariously bad failure).

    In 5e, we have none of that. We, as a group, decided when reading through the DMG as they were rolling their characters that we would play by RAW without a magic item economy. In addition, we use the percentile tables to get randomized loot at the end of dungeons or important plot scenes to play the edition as it was designed. By ‘luck of the roll’ most items that drop are sadly completely ignored, or used situationally as a happenstance, because they have no interest in the randomized loot. Normally this wouldn’t be an issue, and in fact would still make for interesting scenes and interactions as they would desperately try to hang on to magical items because it presented as a very real means of acquiring items that they valued.

    I could break away from the randomized tables (now that players have a much greater chance at finding 0 worth in the process), however my players also have no interest in what to use with their non-item wealth they’ve been accruing. One player bought a castle that he doesn’t visit (and confided he just wanted to spend his gold on anything) because he was lucky enough to find (and hide from the party) an incredibly rare item that dropped in a treasure horde where he (and luckily the other party members otherwise I imagine a meta-game argument would have played out) had no use for it.

    Two other players are playing characters who are career adventurers so they have no desire to purchase any land or objects that wouldn’t in turn help them in this pursuit, so they bought a pack horse and ox to help them carry treasure (which we had a laugh when another player criticized the purchase – commenting on their ability to now hold more coin that they have no plans on spending). One player has been giving his old away to the homeless because it fits his character, and confided in the party that as a player he doesn’t feel like losing gold is an actual loss. We delved in to the living expense rules presented in the DMG where they could pay for living accomodations/travel expenses/etc, but that got quickly thrown out as players mentioned it just felt like they were being taxed.

    I’ve attempted to present them with followers they could spend their money on, land/structures to purchase and tend, city-state standing, horses (which as I detailed above some purchased), however not only are the players not interested in non-adventuring purchases but admittedly it truly doesn’t fit their character motivations either.

    The group appears to be enjoying the campaign, the plot, the struggle, heroic moments, and the downtime RP we participate in, however they are sorely missing the lack of economic aspect to the game where they can develop their characters statistically. I really wish WotC had given rules for the economy in the DMG and just detailed variant rules for high and low item settings.

    It seems like WotC chose to take the choice out of the DM’s hands (unless they wanted to write their own rules on the economy) because other DMs didn’t have the backbone to tell their players that they wanted their games to be low item. I feel like I’m going to have to write my own rules for rarity, finding sellers, material price, etc. so my players can feel like their characters are progressing beyond just the typical class-path, which is going to hamstring my ability to provide story content for my group.

    So far this is the least attractive feature of 5e for my group and I.

    • jmgariepy says:

      As a general rule, this is a pretty strong counter-argument. It hasn’t been my experience… haggling in game is something my players tend to enjoy, so the idea of turning in all those ‘useless’ magic items for a +2 Longsword can make a nice side quest. But I can definitely appreciate the idea of a group just having no interest in that. Either add the economy or don’t, you’re bound to upset some play group.

      That said, I don’t think ‘not liking to tell the players they want the game to be low item’ is the same as ‘DMs that have no backbone’. Try telling your players that you won’t be using the rules for Magic, or Classes and you can imagine the sort of backlash you can expect to receive. As it stands, WotC took half measures with Feats… I get the impressions they wanted to ditch them, but felt the backlash would be too great so they kept them in the book as an optional rule. To a player, more options are always better. My group was polite enough to ask, but many groups will just expect the optional rules that benefit them are turned on. With players like that, trying to take away something printed in the book is like forcing the toothpaste back in the tube. You can probably do it with enough ingenuity, but it isn’t worth the day’s argument and an entire campaign of bad feelings. I’ve lost players over stupider things than that.

      Personally, I’d love to see some third party company tackle the concept of a Magic item economy. That way the idea is out there, and any DM can pick it up, but the players don’t make assumptions about their privileges as characters. And if a DM is working with the third party book and decides he doesn’t like it, he/she can just dump it. Makes me wish I didn’t have ten other writing projects on queque.

      • AerialShenanigans says:

        That’s fair, and I apologize for using your blog as a podium for my rant. I completely understand the desire for DMs to provide a positive experience, and there is a fear present when describing setting desires to a group – especially if it’s a new group. I can’t say in my playing or DMing that I’ve been in a situation where the players persisted beyond ‘DM Judgement’, so it’s probably irregularly easy for me to say ‘just tell the players it’s a low-item setting’ since we’ve played with these variants before.

        We’re taking a break from the game this week, and we’re collaborating on rules/formulas in determining ‘magic item’ related purchases/maintenance/brokering/etc. that we’ll likely use for our future 5e campaigns/updating splats from previous editions. I won’t lie, we’re generally bitter that we have to do this – lamenting that it feels as if WotC simply omitted rules or released a partially incomplete product (especially considering items apparently get lost to the void once sold since there are rules for selling but no rules for buying). This felt like an opportunity to have variant rules, instead of presuming to remove the economy of every setting in the multiverse.

  5. edriwing says:

    Been a long time since this edition got out and I finaly have the opportunity to try it… or not

    Well, this draws the line between players who want to play 3.5/Pathfinder and others.

    I’ll stay were I am with my magic items creation formulas that gave me so much fun.

    Bye bye V5 and your magic and wizards racism !

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